I don’t get Guild Wars 2’s dungeons

As an MMO hopper, MMO sampler, and MMO juggler of yore, I acknowledge that I’ll never truly know the ins and outs of a particular game the way someone will who plays that single title extensively.  So there’s always more to learn, but even so I have to admit to being really puzzled by Guild Wars 2’s dungeons.

I’ve been doing a couple of these every night since my re-entry a few weeks ago, and I am still mystified as to their purpose and design.  Unlike every other MMO I’ve played, it seems as though the group consensus is to avoid mobs at all cost, using speed to dash by them and terrain tricks to get them to reset, so that we can blast right to the boss.  Then most of the bosses are attacked with another set of tricks and terrain quirks, such as hiding in this corner or jumping up on that ledge.  Then there’s the “everyone stand on the exact same spot so we look like an unholy abomination of arms and legs and buffs” tactic too.  We get loot and gold — which is nice — and leave.  And I walk out of these dungeons just wondering what I’m supposed to be getting out of them.

There’s a lot to be said commending what I’ve seen ArenaNet do here.  Each dungeon has two major modes and several paths that the group can vote on, although almost all my groups choose a tried-and-proven path of least resistance.  The design is cool and I love the idea of flexible dungeon runs. Some of the boss fights that we aren’t tricking are pretty engaging and the battles can be nailbiting as we try to keep everyone up and fighting.  I love my Ranger’s spirit of nature pet, since it can do an instant-rez of anyone nearby.

But I can’t shake the feeling that either the playerbase or the design team or both have conspired to create runs that teach us to be cowards.  Run.  Flee.  Avoid.  Trick.  Loot.  If I stop to attack anything, I get told to cut that out and get running again.  It seems as though we pass up waves of mobs (and their associated bags of XP and loot) just to get it over with already.

When I’ve mentioned or joked about this to guildmates or party members, pretty much everyone ignores me.  I guess it’s what we’re all supposed to be used to by now — I’m not giving a brilliant new observation.

It’s not even a new thing to the devs, who more or less defend the right to go ahead and skip mobs.  So… why throw in trash mobs to begin with?  Why deliberately design a dungeon that encourages such behavior instead of creating a dungeon that’s just boss fights and nothing but?  Works for plenty of TSW instances and it wouldn’t make the dungeons come across as a failed experiment.

I’m not a huge fan of plowing through trash mobs, but I don’t feel much like a hero for avoiding them, either.  Maybe I don’t get what the community already understands, and maybe it’s the lack of dedicated roles that turn these dungeons into blitz fests, but… I’m stumped.


37 thoughts on “I don’t get Guild Wars 2’s dungeons

  1. catchersrule March 24, 2014 / 2:11 pm

    Wow, since I don’t play it more than every couple weeks and have never tried a dungeon in there, I had no idea that was how it worked. Doesn’t make much sense to me either, reading this. Is it maybe just the players who are focusing on bosses instead of anything else? I remember running into one or two tanks who’d do that in Wow, and it even happens (though much more rarely, since people are more deed-happy) in LOTRO. But damn… that’s annoying.

    On the other hand, I’m jealous; as of this latest update, I can’t get into the game. I’ve just gotten an error message every time I tried.

  2. Tyler F.M. Edwards March 24, 2014 / 2:20 pm

    I’m no fan of GW2’s dungeons, but it sounds to me like you’re simply describing MMO dungeon runs in general. People are always in a rush to get the most rewards in the least amount of time possible. It’s the same “GOGOGOGOGO” mentality you see everywhere. Change the nouns, and you could be talking about heroics in WoW.

    Not that players don’t deserve some share of the blame, but I think this is a symptom of developers making things too grindy. People never take the time to stop and smell the flowers because they know they’ll be horrifically sick of whatever they’re running long before they’re done with it.

    For my part, my admittedly limited and outdated experience of GW2 dungeons was that they were corpse zergs akin to trying to jam a giant machine with your party’s mangled bodies. Absolutely miserable experience. I’ve played several games since that had a relaxed trinity or no group roles at all, and it amazes me that they all managed to do a better job of it than the game that made the lack of the trinity its selling feature.

  3. Syp March 24, 2014 / 3:24 pm

    Other MMO’s dungeons feel a LOT different than what’s in GW2. People push to proceed, sure, but they don’t leapfrog content because they can’t. Plus, there’s just no order to it. It’s terribly messy with little strategy other than “don’t die.”

  4. Tyler F.M. Edwards March 24, 2014 / 3:36 pm

    Oh, I’ll definitely agree with the messy part. But people will always skip any content they can. It took me months to get achievement for Ahn’kahet back in Wrath of the Lich King because everyone always skipped the optional bosses.

    For this reason, I will always dislike optional bosses. Because after the first few weeks, “optional” might as well mean “doesn’t exist.”

  5. Jeromai March 24, 2014 / 3:37 pm

    It’s a symptom of the early designed dungeons, coupled with the always-on impetus of most players to gogogo as fast as possible, especially when they’ve seen the place a million times before. Add to that the fact that finishing the dungeon gives a gold reward, that the gold rewards are somewhat out of whack with the average time it takes to finish each path, that everything revolves around the gold-gem economy in GW2, and you have some highly incentivized players to do things as painlessly as possible, given how unpredictable PUGs can be. Meaning simple braindead “safe” strategies on the faster, easier paths.

    (@Tyler: The corpse zerg waypointing has ceased, mostly from players actually learning the ins-and-outs of dps/group support builds and specific dungeon strategies – but now we have the compulsion to finish the dungeons ASAP and lack of patience with anything that goes wrong, defies the established strategy or newbies. Sometimes. Still patient people around. But some who are free and easy with the kick button too.)

    The later designed dungeons, which I think were done by a different team entirely (from the Living Story), try to combat this rushing and speedrun tendency. Problem is, they don’t become very repeatable or PUGable after that, leading to them being mostly abandoned..Molten Facility and Aetherblade Retreat are no longer with us in their entirety, but TA Aetherpath is still around, and to the best of my recollection, skipping mobs is not very possible with that, nor do the bosses involve only stack and dps.

    I don’t quite get the fury over using line of sight to draw in ranged mobs and corner-stacking though. That’s been a tried and true strategy of many MMOs. I first learned it in City of Heroes, applied it quite a bit in Age of Conan, and I’m sure other MMOs do it too.

    Skipping’s not my personal cup of tea, and I always feel sorry for those who get mauled by the run past, but well, you adapt when you PUG and if the dungeons allow it, some players will do it. The onus is on the designers to seal the stuff they consider exploiting. It can be hard for players to tell if some place was intended as a safe area, or just something players found (excepting very obvious terrain glitching and so on.).

  6. bhagpussb March 24, 2014 / 3:48 pm

    I don’t do dungeons in GW2 so all the fol,owing is from what I hear people say about them rather than from personal experience. They are a very specific part of the game that has its own niche audience, albeit fairly substantial niche. From what I understand, they have long, long ceased to be of any interest to, well, just about anyone for their intrinsic entertainment value, such as it was. They now serve the dual function of gold farms and elitist competition, the general aim being to see who can do them fastest for the most gold-per-hour.

    All the dungeons have an easier (supposedly) “Story Mode” that you need to take at a much steadier pace. You can do that with people who aren’t gung-ho speedfreaks if you use the LFG tool and look for people that tag their party “Story” somewhere in the description. Other than that I’m not sure anyone much does them except for the money.

    Have you tried Fractals? I have done a few of those and they seemed to play out a lot more like actual dungeons in other games. I think those are probably quite codified now too, but probably less-so than the speed-run culture of regular dungeons.

  7. aseriousmoment March 24, 2014 / 4:22 pm

    It’s not just in Guild Wars 2 dugneons or just in Guild Wars 2. When I raided/dungeoned in other games like Rift or WoW, players would always choose the path of least resistance. If there was a way to cheese an encounter then everybody did it.

    Also, exploiters consider their exploiting to be a skill. So they have told me when I’ve asked “why are we skipping everything?”

    It’s unfortunate, because it takes a lot of the fun out of the dungeons. It’s pretty much why I quit doing dungeons in GW2: the dungeon community sucks. I’ll only do dungeons with my guild.

    I don’t want to avoid challenge, but that doesn’t seem the mindset of the young gamer now. Path of least resistance towards rewards has become a part of the modern gamer unfortunately. Think about MOBAs for a second. Supposedly hardcore PVP? Top PVP game? Well then why does each match start out with little pvp combat? The general rule is to hang back and farm creeps. It’s a pvp game that has the avoidance of pvp within its very nature. It’s a long far cry from the combat I am used to as PVPer in Guild Wars 1 or World of Warcraft.

  8. Nike March 24, 2014 / 4:53 pm

    If killing unrewarding trash mobs is your idea of fun, the open world is full of them.

    If not using tactics like reflections, blocks, dodging or line of sight is not fun for you, you are free to play in a disorganized, uncoordinated fashion. There are plenty of bad pug groups who engage every fight running about like headless chickens.

  9. Warsyde March 24, 2014 / 5:25 pm

    I think it’s largely due to bad design. I haven’t run one in ages (because they were awful), so maybe they’re easier now, but early in the game they were absolutely brutal if you tried to run them like in a typical MMO, and the rewards were pretty terrible if you didn’t beat the bosses. When you can wipe repeatedly on trash spawns, players quickly learn to avoid them. There’s no benefit to engaging them, and you avert a potential wipe by avoiding them. Add in the bonus that this also greatly speeds up the run, and suddenly the dungeon design has channeled the playerbase into avoiding as much of the dungeon content as possible. This is emergent behavior in response to design.

    If trash spawns were easier and offered greater rewards, you’d still have groups that prefer to speed run around them, but you’d also encounter more thoughtful groups interested in maximizing the experience rather than minimizing the time.

  10. Hunter March 24, 2014 / 5:37 pm

    I think one of the major problems with GW2 dungeons is that veterans and elites take a significant amount of time to down but rarely ever drop anything. Some of the paths in GW2 are just a long line of these vets and elites. Some guilds will stop to kill things on principal, but the effort is rarely worth it.

  11. Matt Gajdoš March 24, 2014 / 7:18 pm

    Great article. I agree with you that it can seem disconcerting, but I’ve accepted that we need to keep an open mind as MMOs change a lot over the next few years. Things we’ve been used to as standard practice in MMOs since the 90s are no longer sacred and are being thrown out.

    I’ve been playing GW2 since launch, and I just don’t do dungeons at all anymore – I spend my time in the open world, crafting, PvP, WvW – lots more fun, and no one will punish you for chasing a squirrel 🙂 I think anet is on to something with real dynamic open-world PvE that will surpass dungeon and raid content and potentially be so good that games don’t need dungeons and raids anymore. We just need to be patient and open-minded for a while.

    We’ll see – be sure to dip your toe in some of the other stuff the game offers if you haven’t tried it in a while. I can remember when I didn’t even understand GW2’s PvP system and avoided it out of ignorance, but now I’m tiger rank and eager for the new PvP stuff coming!

  12. Coppertopper March 24, 2014 / 8:50 pm

    You are absolutely right because the whole point of GW2 right now is to get enough mats for legendaries and celestials. Nothing else matters. That is why the upcoming patch focuses on making GW2 more like GW1.

  13. Eyecare March 24, 2014 / 11:13 pm

    So true. This may be the ONLY MMO where you can speed run dungeons and take down bosses through the use of limited skills and minimal group contribution. There is a subset of players who do this all the time and they see speed and quick rewards as some form of achievement. Unfortunately, at least some of the Devs appear to support this method of dungeon running as you so astutely pointed out. The irony here is that it make dungeons much less fun for the majority of people who are running it for the experience as well as the rewards and begs the question as to why the Devs even bothered with mobs in the first place? ANet Devs need to do some soul searching an decide what the primary goal should be for Dungeons. If speed runs is their answer then dungeons are not for me.

    As an aside here’s a couple of YouTube posts from a Romanian player named “nemesis” aka “I am one and I am legion”. He puts a lot of thought into his posts and although many of his videos are quite lengthy you can learn from them if you take the time to watch and understand what he is trying to say. (Remember, English is probably his 3rd or 4th language. There’s no point making fun of his English unless you speak better Romanian than he does.) His first and second videos are related but both are worth watching. I’m posting them because he expresses the current problems with GW2 much more eloquently than I do. Unlike others who only post a multitude of complaints, not only does nemesis post his “top 10 problems” but also takes the time to propose reasonable solutions to these problems. If the Developers only took the time to view and understand what he is trying to do (help this game maintain the interest if the majority if its players and survive) they can make this a much better game for all.

    “The great meta” – will this be the end of Guild Wars 2 ?

    Top 10 things that Guild Wars 2 should implement in 2014

  14. Kai March 25, 2014 / 1:29 am

    I don’t know what you guys were on when you wrote that but let’s just clarify a few things.
    Since you mentioned that anet created runs that teach us to be cowards- I like to see it more like as being focused toward the goal and avoid doing things that are not needed to be done in order to get to it. It doesn’t teach us to be cowards, it teaches us to be efficient and avoid battle if it’s not needed. Also – running, using obstacles, avoiding combat Is more of a strategy than the usual okay-i-take-the-left-one-you-take-the-rest-200-mobs. A strategy is not always just about fighting. A better, more efficient tactic planning should focus on getting the job done, not killing whatever you see, regardless of the mission.

    I would also like to comment on Eyecare comment “This may be the ONLY MMO where you can speed run dungeons and take down bosses through the use of limited skills”. What? Are you serious about this? Yes, Guild Wars might only have a single 0-9 bar for skills, but that doesn’t mean you use a limited amount of skills. Of course it depends on the boss, but in most cases you will actually need all the skills from 0 to 9 (which you set before each battle to make the fight easier) in every single fight (not like in most mmos where you have 10 bars filled with random skills and items, while you would only use 1 or 2 skills trough the whole fight). Not to mention that each class has it’s own set of raits, which players can change to satisfy the needs of the party for a specific fight. Beside that each class has it’s own unique skill bonuses. Take elementalist for example – he gets 4 attunements – by attuning to an element, his 1-5 skills change and a good elementalist will do that multiple times in a single fight. that’s 20 +5 more skills right there. Not to mention the traits that can, for example, cast different abilities when you attune to a specific element.. This increases their ACTUAL skill usage even further. Not to mention dodging – which is a skill in quite a few other mmorpgs. in addition to the dodge you get with roll, you can also get a trait that gives your roll another ability. so there you go – 2 more abilities right there – THAT YOU USE IN EACH FIGHT.
    If you have a good group, every fight will be planned. Like – guardians, who use shouts to remove conditions in one part of the dungeon, will switch to reflecting and negating projectiles in the next one.So there actually is a strategy. there is planning.
    If anything, GW has a GREAT combat system in which players need to know what they are doing and not just stand there, spamming skills, depending on the healer to heal them up and tanks to take agro.

  15. Karolina March 25, 2014 / 4:36 am

    To be honest, I have a feeling that what you described is a new META of nowadays MMO’s. Recently I’ve played Tera, Neverwinter Online and Guild Wars 2 (not in dungeons yet). They all have a bunch of players – the majority unfortunately – with only one goal – the loot… the almighty LOOT.

    Tera was a little bit better, but Neverwinter’s dungeons and rather players of NWO were awful, using glitches, exploits and tricks to get to loot as fast as they can. I was really hoping GW2 will be different. I guess I will stick to exploring and WvW if my experience will appear the same as yours.

  16. Eyecare March 25, 2014 / 12:20 pm

    Agree that i worded it poorly, Kai, but my main point isn’t whether dungeons are easy or difficult to run but that the current direction of GW2 dungeons only encourages a specific meta (in order to make those speed runs) and thereby discourages build diversity.

  17. Kai March 25, 2014 / 12:27 pm

    Eyecare, I have to agree on the meta thingy. I don’t like seeing full-zerg parties, but that’s just how gw2 works. I think we were just used to clasic mmos where you had specific jobs in every party where you actually depend on a healer and a tank and couldn’t really do things on your own. I can agree on the fact that it’s different, but I can’t agree that this makes it boring or as you called it before “skill-limited”.

  18. Ocho March 25, 2014 / 1:22 pm

    This is why I’m fully convinced that gamers nowadays don’t want difficulty and don’t want a challenge. They just want to game efficiently. It stems from the grind, though. Finding the most efficient path gets you the overall reward quicker, so devs then adjust the grind or reward based on that efficient time, and efficiency becomes expected. One persons “exploit” is another’s “tactics”.

    Efficient: only the tested builds, only the tested rotations, only the tested strategies, and you better have watched all those videos! If you’re not playing efficiently, you are just slowing down everyone else. And god forbid you’ve never run a dungeon before. A first time for anyone doesn’t exist. You must know everything about a dungeon before you even step one foot in. Otherwise, why bother? MMOs aren’t about exploration, exposition, story… they’re just about loot and reward.

    It all leads to one question… who is really playing these games? If we’re all just following what other people have figured out… builds, strategies, is it still us? Or are we just someone else’s pawns? Are we just someone else’s content, blithely following orders like good little NPCs? Is self-reward gone? The accomplished feeling you get when solving a really tricky puzzle, is that only for noobs now? Have gamers really devolved into wanting pure skinner boxes such that the only worth of a game is what loot you can get in it?!

    Sad and pitiable, really. It’s a shame this has become the defacto standard.

  19. Jeromai March 25, 2014 / 9:54 pm

    I blame WoW for training an entire generation of MMO gamers to expect fast, efficient and Monty Haul loot at the end, with a toxic Barrens chat that molded the culture of exclusion. But then I’m bitter.

    One of the ways to combat this is to learn to get closer along the spectrum to one of the pioneers and explorers who test and write the strategies and builds and guides. Which does sometimes mean following in their footsteps until you know the rationale behind their choices, and can then adapt things to the situation accordingly.

  20. Avvoh March 31, 2014 / 12:19 pm

    If every mob you kill drops 1g and finishing the dungeon also gives you 1g. Trust me, everyone would be killing every last living mob in the dungeon.

  21. Yak April 1, 2014 / 11:48 am

    Its how mmo’s work these days, if they didn’t it would go the pay to play model. What sucks in general for me though is that, the freemium model just cries an offline experience online. Quite literally I might add, I just normally play these freemium models like a cookie cutter walk in the park with some sprinkled on candies. You would actually make real money for working with wikipedia for game the game guides. X position moves to Y position, Y position loses monkey spank in five moves. Instant sauce hell you might even win a an online editors award 😛

  22. Belghast April 1, 2014 / 1:43 pm

    The dungeons are likely the reason why I played GW2 for a short of a period as I did. They simply were not fun, and felt like random chaotic messes. Running dungeons with my friends is one of my biggest sources of enjoyments in a game, so when you completely pull that piece out the total experience suffers. I’ve had the same feeling of just not “getting” the design. I keep thinking there is something I am missing somewhere that makes it fun.

  23. Mike June 14, 2014 / 6:26 pm

    I agree with you.

    I stepped into ascalon catacombs at about lv 50, but was dropped to 30 and it was the most silly experience in any mmo I’ve ever seen.

    The first thing I wondered was who was going to attract threat, who would heal, and who would interrupt besides the basic abilities given to me, and others.

    Then it happened, we started to fight the mobs, and sure enough Aggro went everywhere. I found myself rolling around, using whatever abilities and the scene looked more like a roller derby on PCP and less like an organized dungeon, with organized classes..

    Made me think that arena.net wanted to create some sort of class with at least a weapon combo for healing/tanking, but some kind of inner struggle stopped it short.. Whatever they wanted to accomplish couldn’t of been this system, because it doesn’t make any sense what so ever.

  24. Kai June 14, 2014 / 9:30 pm

    There’s a difference between not making any sense, or not making any sense to you.
    As a famous person once said “Just because you don’t understand it doesn’t mean it isn’t so.”
    Gw2 is different than most others mmos and comparing it to other games in this genre won’t do much good. You won’t find healers and tanks in this game because in most cases you won’t need those two roles. Dodge at the right time and use boons like protection (+30% def) and aegis to buff your party up. If that’s not enough, blind or inflict weakness debuff (- 50% less damage output) to your opponent. Gw2 is actually more organized than most others mmos. The only difference is – you have to be organized in being efficient by yourself and not depending on others. You won’t have to rely on a healer to survive a battle. You won’t need a tank to defeat an enemy. You will need your gaming skills to do that. If you have skills, you can do anything. That’s why there are people that don’t have many problem with one manning high level dungeons. The thing about GW2 is that you need to stick around for long enough to start liking and understanding the game – but once you do, you won’t be able to play any other mmos anymore, because most of them will feel too simple – and most battle systems will be way too slow and static – which will make them boring. Why depending on others, if you can do it yourself? 🙂

  25. PinkLace July 13, 2014 / 7:11 pm

    For me dungeons in GW2 are horrible with an excess of players who regularly kick, abuse, bully, rush, manipulate, and troll. The dungeon experiences I have had this month are the worst in all of my years in gaming. Many nice and helpful players put off by the treatment they receive at the hands of the Dungeoning Elitists in GW2.

  26. Kai July 13, 2014 / 9:37 pm

    Then let our group take you to the dungeons 🙂 The amount of elitists in this game is way, WAY lower than in any other mmo. And the community, in general, is actually more than helpful. I’ve been doing fractals level 50 lately (prolly the hardest ingame party stuff right now, so you would prolly find most elitists in this place) and 9 out of 10 players that I found with the LFG system were cool and chill. The only exception was a guy who, after we beat the last boss, left without saying anything.

  27. PinkLace July 14, 2014 / 7:33 am

    Kai thank you! So very kind of you to offer your group to help me 🙂 I appreciate that there are very many lovely players out there, many of them helped me through my first dungeons and gave me great advice on how to manage the skipping parts which were very hard for me.
    I do wonder if being part of a supportive group you haven’t been exposed to some of the things that go on out there. I know many of the issues aren’t the fault of the players but the structure of the grouping system and the level that players are invited to the dungeons. I also suspect strongly that Anet isn’t able to keep a strict eye on the dungeons and the player base who frequent/farm dungeons.
    Some people who work long hours, play for fun and relaxation for a couple of short hours each night may never expect the amount and types of structure, discipline, routines that need to be learnt and gear that needs to be worn to just survive and not be a burden on your group. I suspect that this is because the game itself does not prepare you for this.
    I did all my story instances and thought the dungeon was going to be a group version of those. I meet players all the time who I know thought the same and got a huge shock when they realise just how tricky doing those dungeons are. When to run, when to stack, when to use melee, when to wait while a Mesmer lays a spell on you, heck unless you have played all the classes you won’t even understand very well what skills are being used around you and make mistakes that annoy a lot of your team members. All this is way more technical and involved than the PVE elements prepare you for. 🙂
    Lots of us like the freedom of not being committed to guilds or groups and would like to be able to casually join a dungeon group whenever we have an hour or two spare but the system in GW2 doesn’t allow for this to be a happy and enjoyable experience as is the open world events.
    I’m going to accept for now that the dungeons works well for some but not for me and accept that I am not going to be able to unlock those achievements or the lovely armour and weapons and just move on. But I’m just a teeny bit peeved. 😀

  28. Xin July 23, 2014 / 10:10 am

    I largely agree with you here – I’m very new to dungeoneering but I’ve made many of the same observations. It appears that the majority of players have tactics based on exploiting the dungeon’s layout, and that there are many people who want to speedrun them. I do not fall into such a category – I really love exploring, defeating every enemy and surviving a boss fight due to teamwork and persistence. And fortunately, many LFG players have tolerated my lack of knowledge about “the correct” way of doing a dungeon, and I’ve found that more often than not they’ll slow down and enjoy it with me (though every now and then they’ll get frustrated enough to leave).

  29. William Brayton July 26, 2014 / 9:37 pm

    Stacking is what perplexes me the most when I play these games. I never really played MMOs up until Guild Wars 2, infact I played a lot First Person Shooters, RTS games, and other games like Mechwarrior that in big gold letters teach to

    A. Always watch your ammo.
    C.When you’re unit is down, its fucking down.

    *Unless you’re stacking on a doorway or preparing a firingline ala Planetside 2 or XCOM.

    But everyone fucking stacks in these games, and whenever I’ve challenged these I get told to shut up or they say its ‘tactical’. The Secret World apparently suffers from this in the Elite/Nightmare modes as well. When in the living hell has a last stand, which is what stacking pretty much forces, ever work. Hint:Almost never.

    And avoiding the mobs is just as boring because you run to a piece of terrain and wait, watch some person whose mastered this grind to an art. While you’re waiting, you should probably invest your time in another game. What’s even worse with Guild Wars 2 is that in the PvE world, staying still is never a good option, then you dungeons and its like suddenly all the rules have changed.

  30. Kai July 27, 2014 / 4:03 am

    You never did any higher level fractal, did you?
    Swamp fractal boss (either Mossman or Bloomhunger)- move or die in 1 hit.
    Ascalon boss – move or die in 1 hit by a fire storm.
    Frozen fractal – move or freeze to death.
    Uncategorized fractal – move or die by either bosses lightning balls or golem stomps.
    Dredge fractal – move around and make the boss be hit by the lava, otherwise you can die of old age before you’ll be able to kill the boss
    Titan fractal – move or die in 1 hit.
    Not to mention the bosses of the last fractal.
    And even in normal dungeons, I’d like to see how you’d stack at Lupi (Arah dungeon) or most others Arah bosses . Please, if you experienced like.. 3 dungeons so far, don’t think you know everything about gw. Stacking can be stupid ,but it actually is a tactical thing (because all the buffs will affect the whole party and some aoe skills will work better this way. If an elementalist or some other long range class with low hp rather stand somewhere else (like a higher ledge where they are safe from getting wrecked), they are welcome to do so at all time. Either way, I believed stacking is really common for a long time as well, but then i got introduced to the higher level content (and with higher level i don’t mean actual level, but content made for more experienced players). Believe me. Gw2 is not about stacking lol. And it’s funny how some people just keep shit talking a game they don’t like, but keep playing something even shittier. Fact is, guild wars is not a bad game in general. It might be bad FOR YOU, because you have a different taste, but over all, when it comes to game performance, content, -and since we’re talking about games – fun, Guild wars does it’s work more than great.

  31. Kai July 27, 2014 / 4:06 am

    OH also, PinkLace, I hope you’ll see this message X) I still want to take you to the dungeons as I promised xD So, message me in-game (name Xylion Aegis)

  32. PinkLace July 27, 2014 / 8:47 am

    Thanks Kai, I appreciate that a lot! I am taking a break from doing dungeons and focusing on other aspects of the game at the moment and just haven’t the heart to go back there yet but I will sure keep your offer in mind and contact you when I am feeling brave again! 😀
    Happy Gw2ing!

  33. Straylight July 31, 2014 / 7:42 am

    I also find stacking and skipping in Guild Wars 2 extremely annoying to a point where I avoid dungeons altogether.

    In my opinion the reason for this kind of behaviour is how people perceive “fun”. For most people the fun is only happening when they get the shiny loot at the very end. Therefore they want to get to that point as quickly as possible because everything up to that point is not considered fun in their eyes. So they start to skip and stack and everyone who doesn’t play with berserker gear or has enough agony restistance or plays a class that isn’t warrior/guardian/mesmer is getting booted from the group.

    My solution? Learn more ways to have fun.

    Let me give you an example. It may help you to better understand my point: Do you know the game Dota 2? If you don’t, it’s no problem. All you need to know is that your team can win a game or your team can lose a game. When your team is in the process of losing a game they start to get angry at each other. The insult, they flame and they rage. Why? Because they don’t enjoy losing! However, if your team is in the process of winning a game they’re suddenly very polite and nice to each other. They’re making jokes and everything is sunshine and rainbows. Why? Because they’re winning! Of course your win/lose-ratio is exactly 50% no matter what you do. Therefore in dota2, in 50% of the time people are having fun and in the other 50% they’re not having fun.

    I’m not like that. I’m not like these people. I am different. I have fun 100% of the time playing that game. Not just 50%. Why? Because I learned to enjoy losing. In fact I enjoy losing even a bit more than winning because I know that playing against a smarter opponent is the only way to get better.

    Guild Wars 2 is a more complex beast since it involves more than just winning or losing. But the same principle I tried to explain in my Dota2 example can also be applied to Guild Wars 2 . If you learn to enjoy more than just chasing the carrot on a stick that is dangling at the end of the fractal or dungeon then you’ll have a better time as a whole. I always perceive people who do speedruns and stack and exploit and skip as…drug addicts. Always chasing after the next fix that will give them a brief satisfaction only to repeat the process over and over again. These people treat “fun” as small, tiny dosages strewn across a long lonely road always chasing after the next one. But if you learn to enjoy taking it slower: taking the beautiful sights in, trying to find that hidden chamber in Ascalonian catacombs, waiting for those nps to trigger a funny conversation, trying to figure out an encounter without resorting to a guide etc etc… then you’ll always have fun.

    My advice to people is: Learn to enjoy the journey, not just the loot/achievement/whatever that is waiting at the very end. If you truly learn to enjoy the journey then you’ll not mind if you wipe in a dungeon…or if it takes twice as long as a speedrun…or if one of your group-members isn’t equipped fully in berserker gear. It will ultimately lead to a more enjoyful experience. You will never again feel that your time is “wasted”.

    One of the most common retorts to the kind of behavior I’m advocating is: “But we’re having fun too doing speedruns and skipping stuff and stacking!!!”. “Who the hell are you to tell us what is fun and what isn’t!?”…
    Of course you do…of course you’re having fun! I’m not denying that. BUT you would have much more fun if you learned to perceive a more diverse array of activities and behaviours as fun. Not just the lootbox or the token-reward at the end.

    To all those people who skip and stack in dungeons: Don’t be a drug addict chasing after the next temporary fix. Be fucking Indiana Jones instead. It’s called *explorable* dungeon for a reason.

    Thanks for listening.

  34. Meh May 12, 2015 / 2:14 am

    Dungeon runs as they use to call them in Guild Wars 1 are an abomination in Guild Wars 2. Since GW2 dropped henchmen in favor of group parties, dungeons are just a gimmick to quench young peoples need for shinnies. In Guild Wars 1 you would typically form groups if you were bored to tears with henchmen in order to do chest runs, a long arduous if not pointless game tactic to avoid everything in a dungeon to reach chests. People who obsessed over this founded guilds just for the purpose of doing chest runs, the problem with this was all drops in GW1 and to some degree GW2 as well were/are random. You could walk away with gold boxers of godly shine or a back scratcher of the lowly coward. Then we have the argument of bots, farmers, hackers and of course the infamous time sink zombies. Most of those things still exist in GW2 hell some of them actually work better, 80% of GW2 gamers that are fully leveled are guaranteed hackers.

    I like Neverwinter Online better there is no rich vs poor argument here, you can afford it all with $$ rather than wasting your life looking for impossible things. The people who have the best benefits in the Guild Wars games are those who were around since the Alpha’s and Beta’s of the game. They have or had access to tricks, areas, locations etc.. either gone from the final product, removed or simply never made it. You can never really join the millionaires club, GW pushes your limits on toon porn. You have to be a certain kind of breed of person to really get anywhere with it. I don’t really enjoy games that push you to group hug like hippies, GW was designed by former Blizzard employees or some such bull plop so I’m guessing if you understand their weirdo world of craft this craft that the GW formula makes sense.

  35. Kai May 12, 2015 / 5:49 am

    Lol Meh, clearly you didn’t play GW2 much.
    GW2 is FAR from rich vs poor. It’s quite the opposite. Everyone can be rich and you don’t really need to waste a lot of time in game. I made myself 2 (could have 3, but I’m waiting for the expansion to get a new one) legendaries by just playing the game. I didn’t farm a single day.
    The game is basically throwing you loot in your face regardless on what you are doing. There are NO benefits for players who played in Alpha and Beta. I’m not sure I understand what you mean with “tricks, areas and locations”. Everyone has access to those tricks and places. Nothing is really hidden.
    I’ve got friends of all personalities, genders, races, religions playing this game. And each one of them is doing more than fine in game. Of course, there are some elitists in game, who really wants to do speed runs with 0 mistakes, ect. But most players try to avoid them and they try to avoid the rest of the players, No problem there. There are elitists in every single game.
    Also, about your stacking theory..
    After a while, I came to understand that GW2 is far away from just stacking in the same spot.
    Sure, there are locations where you are supposed to stack, to make all monsters come close, so you can burst them with your aoe attacks. Another reason for doing this is to either buff up (most players have aoe buffs, but the range of it is not infinite. stacking on a spot, asures the players to get all the buffs. At the same time, there are skills that reflect projectiles (wall of reflection, feedback,ect.), players should stand on the other side of it. If they stack it is easier for the caster to place those skills correctly to reflect things back at their opponents.
    Stacking is common, but not used everywhere. For instance, I can asure you that you won’t stack in high level fractals, where mobs can practically 2 shot you. You need to use skills at the right time, dodge at the right time, use specific skills at the right time, try to remove defiance from bosses and use other specific skills at the right time to make it easier to go trough. There are also places where someone has to lure the big bad, ect. In one of the dungeons you have many things to do, like 2 players luring oozes trough a fiery labyrnth, defending them from other hostile mobs, to get a door open by using the oozes to oil the cogs. You won’t stack in that dungeon.
    You really need to catch up with the game.
    If you find it that bad and if you have such a bad opinion about it, you need someone to show you the good sides of GW.
    If you have an account on NA,I’d be happy to do it 🙂

  36. BruceLeeMagic January 14, 2016 / 5:20 pm

    I understand everything you’re questioning about the current GW2 dungeon running standard. However, from someone who’s ground out dungeons like CM many, many, many times, I’ll simply share what many who have done the same are thinking… God, I hope I never have to fight everything in there if I need to run the thing 100+ more times. No matter how exciting a dungeon is made to be, and even as much enjoyment as I get out of the exploit variation which is significantly shorter, everything WILL eventually become DEATHLY dry and boring after as many runs as an MMO will force you to run it.

    My feelings in summation: If AreaNet came in with a new team of dungeon developers and fixed every exploit so that you had to face all mobs and couldn’t skip anything.. If I was forced to spend a solid hour minimum per dungeon path, only to get 1-2 gold and some tokens as my reward.. I would undoubtedly drop this game and move on to another MMO. AreaNet knows this is true of many of its players, and it’s their primary incentive to leave everything untouched.

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